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Electric vehicles - what does the future hold?
Brewha Offline
#1101 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,185
HockeyDad wrote:
On the news today that Brewha got a free month of self driving, the stock dropped 5.5%.

Analysts were quoted as saying “come on man, he’s a Prius Uber guy!”



Your envy is noted.
Brewha Offline
#1102 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,185
DrMaddVibe wrote:
If anyone is into the "fear mongering" it's YOU! A constant fear of learning! You seem to have a very hard time with reading and comprehension. Your inability to read the stories and facts are on you. You are the one bringing your Feelings sandwich and expecting everyone to eat it, like you ALWAYS do. I can only surmise from what you decide to put up that unless the government or an alphabet agency isn't telling you what to do, think or behave that you lack the faculties to employ critical thinking. All you have is a supposed "windmill" to attack there "Don Quixote". Good luck with that. Everyone else that has corresponded on this (and every other topic you bleat your bull**** on) thread can see you for what you are. A person that is unwilling to listen to industry leaders, scientists, manufacturers and every other watchdog/insurance group with rational guided wisdom predicated on facts, sales numbers and history on their side. Good luck.

Denigrating me for offering up an opinion that differs from you based on your failed logic is all on you. Think I'm wrong? I can show you where I'm not. Screaming at your computer screen isn't going to work out for you. We ALL see you for what you are. It's my mistake for believing that you have an ability to learn or you're an adult.



Dude, I am stating real world, personal experience while you quote YouTube and ride your fist.
Get a life.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#1103 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,448
Brewha wrote:
Dude, I am stating real world, personal experience while you quote YouTube and ride your fist.
Get a life.




Riiight...you just happen to be the only Tesla owner with zero charge issues, still on the original tires pay less in insurance ...sure.

We have a word for you. LIAR.
Brewha Offline
#1104 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,185
So after a few days with FSD I can tell you it really is next level+.

Tested it in downtown Dallas rush hour traffic. It is more aggressive than I would have guessed - it rocks, but is kinda scary.

Overall I'd say it's like a good student driver with an attitude. It is a supervised driving package. Had one alarms so far - because of another driver non-driving. Construction zones have been no problem. Seems like you could use it 98% of the time without really paying attention - but occasionally you need to intervene. Going from the bar to the house is a drunk drivers dream (no admission of guilt here. just an example. Really. Trust me.).

All this plus the joy of the knuckle draggers throwing rocks at the machine they don't understand - I love it!
Brewha Offline
#1105 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,185
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Riiight...you just happen to be the only Tesla owner with zero charge issues, still on the original tires pay less in insurance ...sure.

We have a word for you. LIAR.


Da Nile ain't just wide - it's deep too.
HockeyDad Offline
#1106 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,138
Brewha wrote:
Your envy is noted.


Hey! I’m in your camp. I know electric cars are the future because the government says so. I’ll invest accordingly.

Imabout to buy my first EV. It will be a golf cart.
HockeyDad Offline
#1107 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,138
I still think Waymo will beat Tesla to the Johnny Cab.
Abrignac Online
#1108 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,281
Did anyone see the news about Ford pushing back debut dates for its EV trucks and large SUV’s? Seems their EV unit is hemorrhaging and they are rethinking direction.
Gene363 Offline
#1109 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,822
State to Ask EV Buyers To Pay 4 Years of Registration Up Front

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWMzGOBeikA

Quote:
New Jersey will see if this will help their financial situation.


If they do something like this, they will decide to do it to gas burners too, repairs (graft) has to be paid.
HockeyDad Offline
#1110 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,138
Abrignac wrote:
Did anyone see the news about Ford pushing back debut dates for its EV trucks and large SUV’s? Seems their EV unit is hemorrhaging and they are rethinking direction.



They just are gonna need a bigger gun held to their head. Biden’s got F-16s to use on them.
ZRX1200 Offline
#1111 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,617
Manufacturers have been holding back new ICE vehicles and its pissing dealers off that can’t move EVs. Ford is still reeling from both EV failures and holdover issues with supply chain stuff. Ask new gen Bronco owners how things are going….good thing they still sell trucks and Mustangs.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#1112 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,448
Brewha wrote:
Da Nile ain't just wide - it's deep too.


Oh yeah it's deep, but you're used to wearing hipwaders.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-mexico-electric-vehicle-mandates-to-remain-in-place-as-auto-dealers-fight-the-new-rules/ar-BB1l8VQQ?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=170c75b57cf04f78b5815cdbbfc31a21&ei=21


No mandates eh?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#1113 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,448
ZRX1200 wrote:
Manufacturers have been holding back new ICE vehicles and its pissing dealers off that can’t move EVs. Ford is still reeling from both EV failures and holdover issues with supply chain stuff. Ask new gen Bronco owners how things are going….good thing they still sell trucks and Mustangs.



Maybe Mayor Pete Brewha can call them names and stuff and get them back in his camp so he can mention fisting again.

https://redstate.com/wardclark/2024/04/04/pete-buttigiegs-arrogant-condescension-americans-would-buy-electric-vehicles-if-they-knew-better-n2172298


Oh wait...its all my fault people don't want them...I almost forgot what Mayor Pete Brewha says.
ZRX1200 Offline
#1114 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,617
Mmmmmmmmm fisting.

👊🏿✊🏻👎👍🤘🫰🤌🤝
BuckyB93 Offline
#1115 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,209
What is the carbon footprint of those that are pushing and trying to mandate EVs?

Maybe they drive the EV to the airport for a snippet and photo shoot but then their entourage (most likely in ICE SUVs) all load onto their private jets burning jet fuel that was probably idling for a hour or so to warm it up or run the AC so they fly can off to some "important green" conference. Yeah... they are 100% focused on "green" energy.

These folks that are pushing the green energy and EV thingie most likely (98.2% sure) have a "carbon footprint" in a single day than me and my entire family have in a month.

Saying EVs in their current state and in the foreseeable future are better for the environment and more reliable then current vehicles is a complete farce. Fact, not opinion.
MACS Offline
#1116 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,798
CO2 is at 0.04% of our atmosphere. If it goes any lower, plant life will start dying off. That's an actual FACT you can look up.

So carbon ain't the fookin problem.
rfenst Offline
#1117 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
I won't pretend to know what the correct answers to the issues are, but has anybody ever wondered if "taking a step backwards before taking three steps forward' with EVs might be in play?
Sunoverbeach Offline
#1118 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,669
So, like horse and buggy?
rfenst Offline
#1119 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
Sunoverbeach wrote:
So, like horse and buggy?

No. That's like 98.2 steps backward!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#1120 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,448
Double dog dang darn. Those pesky facts that Mayor Pete Brewha wants to gloss over with his sexual proclivities and trying to use CBid as his own personal dating site just aren't going away. FACTS. Contrary to what he tells anyone thats not fact checking him...its just not a a good take. The links that are here are all verifiable. Notice he cannot dispute them with proof they're incorrect? Always personalizing his experiences with "Kicks azz", "kewl" and "kids dig it" to somehow legitimize his rapidly depreciating purchase? Hell, I even stated if he saved for a few months more he could've saved thousands on his Tesla. FACTS. I've explained myself and my take on EVs. I'm not alone with them, and I'm not running to manufacturers, scientists, consumers, government agencies, or anyone else crying out that the sky is falling. I'm merely reading. Not taking a single source as gospel. I'm not a reporter nor a news agency. It's not hard to disseminate articles when professionals in their fields use graphs, numbers compiled with verified evidence that EVs are a true menace to the world. Instead we have a trendy look at me curious braggart that's cornered with his poor and costly decision for daily transportation. Remember, he stated he DGAF about saving the planet. So we can remove that altogether. Watching this administration push this narrative to save the planet while scamming everyone is an affront to intelligent people willing to read. Using taxpayer money to provide rebates to hook the unsuspecting. Pushing fear for the sake of control. Mandated nonsense to corporations that run to market with foolish products consumers don't want or need. Blowing billions of dollars expecting another taxpayer bailout? Delaying the commitments to a president that cannot read from a teleprompter, walk up stairs or contain his bowels! They deserve to go bankrupt and this time be parted out to the financial institutions they borrowed their money from.


More inconvenient facts...


https://nypost.com/2024/03/05/business/evs-release-more-toxic-emissions-are-worse-for-the-environment-study/


Double dog darn those pesky facts.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#1121 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,448
Abrignac wrote:
Did anyone see the news about Ford pushing back debut dates for its EV trucks and large SUV’s? Seems their EV unit is hemorrhaging and they are rethinking direction.



https://blackmon.substack.com/p/the-us-auto-industrys-ev-bloodbath?publication_id=712558&post_id=143270264&isFreemail=false&r=ch1ue&triedRedirect=true

Their EV division cost the company 6 billion dollars. I can only guess what posturing is going on in their hallways.
Brewha Offline
#1122 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,185
rfenst wrote:
I won't pretend to know what the correct answers to the issues are, but has anybody ever wondered if "taking a step backwards before taking three steps forward' with EVs might be in play?


The step backward - and we'll be taking more of them - is the perception of EV's that Americans hold dear, and will spit on your shoes if you differ.

Look at the people here that disregard what the EPA says, and most any reliable technical source, and go right on either lying or spreading ignorance.

For you DMV:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/truth-about-electric-cars-ad-why-you-are-being-lied-to/

Why Are You Being Lied To?

It works like this: Scientists at research institutions discover smoking causes lung cancer. Tobacco companies counter by hiring their own scientists who say the opposite. In the car world, this began with leaded gasoline. Harvard, for instance, said it was a terrible poison. GM and Standard Oil disagreed. Millions of people died with millions more poisoned. Often there's a profit motive behind the lies, yet sometimes the disinformation comes from culture wars. Sadly, we live in the age of alternative facts; in my view, it's the latter at play here. I admittedly spend too much time reading comments on stories about this subject, but I find the massive volume of anti-EV hysteria alarming. Then I remember something my father always told me: Truth is a defense.





And this is why I see value in this thread - to see what others are thinking - right or wrong.
I have direct experience with EV's and the technical background to understand the issues around them. And I don't care who drives them. But just look upon the angst and anger at those cars and truck that don't run on gasoline.

Kinda makes ya smile.
Brewha Offline
#1123 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,185
(Dr. Brewhas' analysis)


DrMaddVibe wrote:
Double dog dang darn. (attempt to seem erudite) Those pesky facts that Mayor Pete Brewha wants to gloss over with his sexual proclivities and trying to use CBid as his own personal dating site just aren't going away. (Projection) FACTS. Contrary to what he tells anyone thats not fact checking him...its just not a a good take. The links that are here are all verifiable. Notice he cannot dispute them with proof they're incorrect? (conjecture) Always personalizing his experiences with "Kicks azz", "kewl" and "kids dig it" to somehow legitimize his rapidly depreciating purchase? (open envy) Hell, I even stated if he saved for a few months more he could've saved thousands on his Tesla. FACTS. I've explained myself and my take on EVs. I'm not alone with them, and I'm not running to manufacturers, scientists, consumers, government agencies, or anyone else crying out that the sky is falling. I'm merely reading. ("merely" IS accurate) Not taking a single source as gospel. I'm not a reporter nor a news agency. It's not hard to disseminate articles when professionals in their fields use graphs, numbers compiled with verified evidence that EVs are a true menace to the world. Instead we have a trendy look at me curious braggart (more envy) that's cornered with his poor and costly decision for daily transportation. Remember, he stated he DGAF about saving the planet. So we can remove that altogether. Watching this administration push this narrative to save the planet while scamming everyone is an affront to intelligent people willing to read. (Trump donation request) Using taxpayer money to provide rebates to hook the unsuspecting. Pushing fear for the sake of control. Mandated nonsense to corporations that run to market with foolish products consumers don't want or need. Blowing billions of dollars expecting another taxpayer bailout? Delaying the commitments to a president that cannot read from a teleprompter, walk up stairs or contain his bowels! They deserve to go bankrupt and this time be parted out to the financial institutions they borrowed their money from. (text MAGA to 888623)



Or - maybe you are just scared of EVs.

You know that anger is often a caused by fear......
ZRX1200 Offline
#1124 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,617
Congo kids are smiling all the way to the bank…..errrr….mudhole
DrMaddVibe Offline
#1125 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,448
Brewha wrote:
(Dr. Brewhas' analysis)

Or - maybe you are just scared of EVs.

You know that anger is often a caused by fear......


You're scared of facts. You're scared of Science. You're scared of people that know more than you. You loathe anyone that has a differing opinion that counters yours with facts. There's no emotions in it at all. None. That's all on YOU cupcake.

Once again everyone, see this guy for what he is. An emotional trainwreck that's trying to justify his poor life choices by suckering others down his path to assuage his bad decisions.

Unless you have some new proof to show the links I posted are inaccurate then by all means cry about how bad you have it.
Brewha Offline
#1126 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,185
ZRX1200 wrote:
Congo kids are smiling all the way to the bank…..errrr….mudhole

Your crocodile tears are noted.
Brewha Offline
#1127 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,185
DrMaddVibe wrote:
You're scared of facts. You're scared of Science. (more projection) You're scared of people that know more than you. You loathe anyone that has a differing opinion that counters yours with facts. (the projection train travels on...) There's no emotions in it at all. None. That's all on YOU cupcake. ("cupcake" as a dispassionate term)

Once again everyone, see this guy for what he is. An emotional trainwreck that's trying to justify his poor life choices by suckering others down his path to assuage his bad decisions. (this explains many of his other threads..)




I hope you are having fun with this thread - I think it Rockz!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#1128 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,448
Brewha wrote:
Your crocodile tears are noted.


Brewha wrote:
I see it with engineering eyes. And no - I did not buy an EV to save the planet.
In fact, it was not even a real consideration.


You'd need a mask/snorkel and fins by now!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#1129 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,448
Brewha wrote:
I hope you are having fun with this thread - I think it Rockz!


I wouldn't really call it fun. More entertaining watching you lie, backpeddle and depreciate yourself faster than the Tesla you drive.

You know you have never proven a link I've posted (minus the pure comedy ones that you'd want to claim as reality because, well its you!) regarding the EV as incorrect?
Brewha Offline
#1130 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,185
DrMaddVibe wrote:
I wouldn't really call it fun. More entertaining watching you lie, backpeddle and depreciate yourself faster than the Tesla you drive.

You know you have never proven a link I've posted (minus the pure comedy ones that you'd want to claim as reality because, well its you!) regarding the EV as incorrect?


That Sir, is because you accept nothing as truth or fact outside of your own opinion.
Evidence my experiences; they must be a lie.
Information on the EPA web site; you deem political deception.

Besides - who cares what you think?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#1131 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,448
Brewha wrote:
That Sir, is because you accept nothing as truth or fact outside of your own opinion.
Evidence my experiences; they must be a lie.
Information on the EPA web site; you deem political deception.


I've posted links and I've posted my opinions on this matter.

You can't refute the links and think I wrote the articles.

You realize pushing the EPA website is the same as a purchase advertisement for Tesla on this matter don't you? You don't. Got it. It is. What do you serve as a side dish with your propaganda, a Covid booster?

Your value is sinking lower.
rfenst Offline
#1132 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
Got 44+ mpg during a two hour drive with mt accord sport hybrid driving around 82mph and up to 90mph a few times to pass.
rfenst Offline
#1133 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
Should You Buy a Hybrid Car? Here’s What You Need to Know
As sales of electric vehicles fail to live up to some expectations, hybrids have taken off. Here are answers to the questions many car buyers have.


WSJ

Just a year ago, the car industry was nearly unanimous in its message: Electric vehicles are the future and will take over the market sooner than you think.

Now that optimism seems to have been premature. Though carmakers continue to roll out new EV models—those that run entirely on batteries and lack a gas-powered engine—their sales growth has slowed dramatically as consumers aren’t snapping them up as quickly as the industry expected. Unsold EVs are piling up on dealer lots despite price cuts.

What happened? Many people worry that the shortage of public charging stations and limited EV driving range could leave them stranded with a dead battery. Once you find a charger, it takes vastly more time to refill batteries than a gas tank. And most EVs still cost more than similar gas-engine cars, especially since many models lost their tax incentives this year.

Instead, more buyers seeking to trim their gas bill or lower their contribution to greenhouse gases are turning to a quarter-century-old technology: hybrid vehicles, which combine batteries and an electric motor with a conventional internal-combustion gas engine. U.S. sales of hybrids topped those of EVs in 2023, about 1.4 million to 1.2 million, according to Cox Automotive, an information and technology provider for the vehicle industry. In response, carmakers plan to turn out more hybrids.

How do hybrid cars work?
In most hybrid vehicles, both the gasoline engine and an electric motor or motors can power the wheels. The engine also turns a generator that creates electricity. The electricity feeds into a battery pack, which in turn provides juice to the motor.

In addition, most hybrids recharge the battery in another way: When you take your foot off the accelerator or hit the brakes, the car reverses the direction of the electric motor, which both slows the vehicle and turns the motor into a generator to create electricity. This process is called regenerative braking. But this type of hybrid, the most common variation, can’t be plugged in to refill the battery.

Sophisticated electronics figure out whether the engine or motor—or both simultaneously in some models—should propel the vehicle at any time.

That sounds complicated. What’s the point?
Hybrids get more miles per gallon of gas because they aren’t burning fuel all the time—the engine can shut off while the battery and electric motor do the work, typically when traveling at lower speeds, coasting on the highway or in stop-and-go driving. Moreover, because the motor can assist the gas engine, the engine can be less powerful than in a similar gas-only car and thus more fuel-efficient.

How much better mileage does a hybrid get than a regular gas-powered car?
It can be dramatically better, about 40% more on average than gas-only vehicles, according to Consumer Reports.

The most efficient Toyota Camry hybrid sedan gets 52 miles a gallon in combined city and highway driving, according to the Environmental Protection Agency—nearly 63% more than the most efficient nonhybrid Camry’s 32 mpg. The hybrid Hyundai Tucson Limited SUV gets a combined 37 mpg, 32% better than the nonhybrid’s 28 mpg.

The Energy Department offers a tool to compare the mileage of hybrid and nonhybrid versions of the same model.

Are there other advantages to hybrids?

Many accelerate more quickly than their gas-powered equivalents. And they are quieter in low-speed driving when they run only on battery power. “They tend to drive a little nicer than their gas-only counterparts,” says Alex Knizek, manager of auto testing and insights at Consumer Reports. And despite their more complicated innards they can be more reliable than similar gas-powered vehicles, Knizek adds.

Moreover, unlike with an EV, “there is no change in the consumer experience,” says Stephanie Valdez Streaty, director of industry insights at Cox Automotive. “I don’t have to worry about charging, or range anxiety.”

So what’s not to love about a hybrid?
Most cost more than gas-engine models, up to 20% more, according to car-shopping site Edmunds, though they are less expensive than fully electric cars. For example, the base price of the Honda CR-V Hybrid, $34,050, is about 15% higher than that of the gas-only CR-V. Honda doesn’t make an electric CR-V, but a similar-size electric SUV, the Volkswagen ID.4, starts at $39,735.

But that price premium is falling as the cost of hybrids’ batteries and other components has declined. “I think we will continue to see hybrid premiums shrink,” says Valdez Streaty. However, there are no federal or state tax incentives for these non-plug-in hybrids.

Any other disadvantages to hybrids?
This isn’t necessarily a disadvantage but a quirk: They get better mileage in city driving than on highways—the opposite of gas-engine-only cars.

For instance, the Lexus RX hybrid gets 37 mpg in the city, but just 34 mpg on the highway. So if most of your daily driving is on an interstate, you won’t see the same efficiency benefit as people who do mostly stop-and-go drives.

What’s behind the lower highway efficiency?
The engine usually runs most of the time on the highway, burning gas, since the electric motor by itself isn’t powerful enough to maintain high speeds.

Can I earn back a hybrid’s price premium through gas savings?
Many owners can, depending on how long they keep the car and particularly if they do a lot of stop-and-go driving. Consumer Reports says the average payback period is four years when gas costs $3.35 a gallon and the vehicle is driven 12,000 miles a year. The more miles you drive or the more expensive the gas, the sooner the payback.

So should I consider a hybrid even if I do mainly highway driving?
Possibly, because most of them get better highway mileage than a similar gas-only vehicle. But your payback period could be much longer than for other types of drivers.

I’m confused by the “plug-in hybrids” some carmakers sell. What are they?
Plug-in hybrids, which the industry calls PHEVs, also combine a gasoline engine with an electric motor or motors. But their battery pack is much larger and so holds more electricity. And unlike a regular hybrid, you can plug them into a wall outlet or public charger to refill the battery, just as with an EV.

What’s the advantage of plug-in hybrids?
The added battery capacity means they can travel a certain distance on the electric motor only, ranging from 15 to 50 or so miles depending on the model. So around town or on short trips it can seem like driving an EV, with its silent ride and no tailpipe emissions. Once the battery is nearly depleted, the gas engine takes over and they operate like a regular hybrid, so there’s no worry about getting stranded.

The electric driving range means they can get greater gas mileage during a trip than an ordinary hybrid, but that depends on the length of the trip—a shorter drive takes more advantage of the gas-free range before the engine starts up—and whether it’s city or highway driving. Plugging them in at public chargers from time to time while on the road also boosts the mileage.

That efficiency is one reason carmakers plan to build more of them—plug-ins help their makers meet federal and state regulations

What else might entice me to buy a plug-in model?
A few qualify for a federal tax credit, up to $7,500, while some states also subsidize plug-ins. Models eligible for a federal credit include the Ford Escape Plug-In Hybrid and Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe. However, there can be income restrictions for these credits. Leasing a plug-in can be another way to get the value of the federal tax credit, since the leasing company gets the credit and can apply it to your lease cost.

Are there drawbacks to plug-in hybrids?
Yes. Absent a tax break, most cost more than regular hybrids—Toyota’s RAV4 Prime plug-in SUV has a base price of $43,690, compared with $31,725 for the regular RAV4 Hybrid. And in very cold weather, a plug-in is likely to run out of battery power faster than the stated range, the same shortcoming that affects EVs.

Plus, once you deplete the battery, you might get lower mileage than a regular hybrid, especially in highway driving. That’s because the extra batteries that plug-ins carry weigh hundreds of pounds more, eating up more fuel than an ordinary hybrid when in gas-engine-only mode.

What else should I know about plug-ins?
The plug-in feature brings the same charging issues EV owners face: You need at least a standard, 120-volt electrical outlet near where you park. And if you don’t spring for installing a 240-volt outlet at home, which can cost hundreds of dollars to well over $1,000, filling the battery could take 12 hours or so.

Moreover, you have to remember to plug it in—anecdotal evidence suggests that some plug-in owners don’t bother, since the cars run fine on gas. Of course, that means you won’t see the full gas savings, so the price premium you paid might have been wasted.

Given their higher price, who should consider a plug-in hybrid?
It depends on several factors. Do you have a place to plug one in where you live or work? Does your daily car use generally fall within the battery-driving range, or close to it, which will speed up the payback of the added sticker price? And do you live in an area with moderate electricity prices but high gas prices, which also makes the return on your investment come quicker?

The EPA offers a calculator that helps consumers figure out how much they would save on gas and spend on electricity with a plug-in.

So which type of vehicle power system provides the lowest fuel costs?
Generally an EV does, though there are variables including the prices of gas and electricity and your driving habits.

Here’s a comparison from the EPA of average annual fuel costs, based on 15,000 miles of driving, for several versions of Toyota’s RAV4 SUV: for the gas-engine version, $1,700 to $1,750; for the hybrid version, $1,300; and for the plug-in hybrid version, $950. There is no fully electric RAV4, but the similar-sized Volkswagen ID.4 AWD costs $750 a year in electricity, the EPA estimates.

Some carmakers offer “mild hybrids.” What are they?
These vehicles have a smaller electric motor and battery pack than regular hybrids, which they use almost entirely to supplement the power of the gas engine rather than propel the car independently. Some can shut off the engine while you slow the car and run briefly on the battery, and use regenerative braking to recharge the battery, like a hybrid. And in vehicles with a start-stop feature that cuts the engine while at a stoplight, the car resumes driving on battery power for a short period before the engine restarts. These features can raise the vehicle’s mpg rating, another boost to carmakers’ efforts to meet government requirements.

What are the downsides of mild hybrids?

They can’t drive solely with the motor except intermittently, which means they don’t offer the quiet and lively driving of a regular or plug-in hybrid in battery-only mode. And they don’t provide anywhere near the gas efficiency of these hybrids.

So what is better for the environment, driving any type of hybrid or an EV?
It’s complicated. While hybrids use less gas overall than regular gas-only cars, and thus put out fewer greenhouse emissions, they still pollute while in gas-engine mode. Some environmental groups have pushed back on carmakers that promote the green advantages of hybrids.

EVs, by contrast, emit no pollution themselves. But the electricity used to charge their batteries could come from coal- or gas-fired power plants that contribute to global warming, so in effect they aren’t totally clean, either, in those cases.
MACS Offline
#1134 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,798
I got nothing against Hybrids. However, I would not want one just because of the battery weight and cost of replacement.

I plan on keeping vehicles for the long term at this point. The batteries can last 100k-200k miles, but are usually only warrantied for 100k. If you lease vehicles every 3 years and just love car payments... help yaself.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#1135 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,448
Mean ol' me made Elon shed more than 10% of his workforce with more to come.

If only more people would've signed up for his assisted driving package...if deeper rebates would've been given...if only the EPA would've ditched internal combustion engines last year...oh well, several said it wasn't ready for primetime. Now...China floods the market with their software golf carts. Maybe they too can make rad kewl fart sounds that the trendy go ga ga over.

https://apnews.com/article/tesla-layoff-workforce-sales-decline-ee35abc216b5aeb222068500b916ef14

What does the future hold for EV's? Pedo Joe better git to sellin'!
Palama Offline
#1136 Posted:
Joined: 02-05-2013
Posts: 23,709
MACS wrote:
I got nothing against Hybrids. However, I would not want one just because of the battery weight and cost of replacement.

I plan on keeping vehicles for the long term at this point. The batteries can last 100k-200k miles, but are usually only warrantied for 100k. If you lease vehicles every 3 years and just love car payments... help yaself.


Back in ‘16 when I was looking for a vehicle (…’cause I hadda turn in my company car…), I really considered an EV or hybrid but the, at the time, unknown cost of the batteries in 7-ish years was too much of a mystery for me to seriously consider one. But when COVID hit and then me going full retirement, I’mma REALLY glad I didn’t go “green”. Don’t think I drive more than 300 miles a month…and that’s one with lots of trips into town. Fo’ sure my ROI would have taken w-a-y more than the national average. And by then I probably would have replaced the batteries. d'oh!

We leased a car once (…a ‘98 Infiniti I30…) and ended up purchasing it. My wife LOVED the car so even though we paid a premium for it, there was no way we could get a similar car for the buy-out price. But still, I swore we would never lease ever again.
ZRX1200 Offline
#1137 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,617
My mom’s Prius batter went to crap at 160k.

Good thing she still has the combustion engine….errr….block is cracked.
Brewha Offline
#1138 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,185
rfenst wrote:
Should You Buy a Hybrid Car? Here’s What You Need to Know
As sales of electric vehicles fail to live up to some expectations, hybrids have taken off. Here are answers to the questions many car buyers have.



As I have said before, buying a car is more of an emotional decision than anything else. By many people standards, a Hybrid is the best of both worlds - comapering BEV to ICE. And 44 mpg is really good. They are conventional yet more efficient - no argument there.

My take on this is prolly too much an engineering mentality. I would tell you that:
The simpler the machine the better, the height of design is simplicity, and that the best part is no part.
By these standards BEVs are the clear winner and Hybrids the clear loser.

But to each his own.

Enjoy the car.
Brewha Offline
#1139 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,185
I really have gotten a kick out of the EV "Battery Bug-A-Boo".

Service life on a Tesla battery is about 1,500 charging cycles, which translates to about 300,000 miles for Standard Range models and about 500,000 miles for Long Range versions.

But let's just say that they all die at 250,000 miles. That's $12,000 to $15,000 to replace!
But do the math - you drove 250k miles without oil changes, radiator flushes, tune ups, etc. And by 250k miles you have spit out a motor and trans - or at least had them rebuilt. This is not a real difference.

Add to that the cost of getting 30 mpg against 131 mpge. Even in the very worst case it 2:1 on the cost of fuel.

But then there is all that battery weight; a model 3 is about 4,000 Lbs. A Ford F-150 is about 5,000 Lbs. and a Camry comes in at only 3,500 Lbs. Here in Texas, everybody drives a truck and the bigger the better - so EV's are the "Middle Weight" vehicles.



BUT - American are not ready for EVs.
This much is clear.
rfenst Offline
#1140 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
Brewha wrote:
As I have said before, buying a car is more of an emotional decision than anything else. By many people standards, a Hybrid is the best of both worlds - comapering BEV to ICE. And 44 mpg is really good. They are conventional yet more efficient - no argument there.

My take on this is prolly too much an engineering mentality. I would tell you that:
The simpler the machine the better, the height of design is simplicity, and that the best part is no part.
By these standards BEVs are the clear winner and Hybrids the clear loser.

But to each his own.

Enjoy the car.

Thank you.
I totally understand the angle you are coming from.
rfenst Offline
#1141 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
2My brother bough an electric 2024 Hyundai IONI. I''l see what it is all about next week!
tonygraz Offline
#1142 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,267
In Detroit they are experimenting with a new copper coil system in the road to recharge electric vehicles while they are been driven or parked. The system is an Israeli based innovation.
HockeyDad Offline
#1143 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,138
I bought my first EV today.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#1144 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,448
HockeyDad wrote:
I bought my first EV today.


Can it hold just 2 or 4 sets of clubs?
HockeyDad Offline
#1145 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,138
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Can it hold just 2 or 4 sets of clubs?


It’s a four seater. We didn’t get the club holder accessory yet.
BuckyB93 Offline
#1146 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,209
Keep the clubs away from your wife.

Signed, Tiger Woods
HockeyDad Offline
#1147 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,138
We really like our new EV. It nice to be able to do what we can to help the environment and fight climate change.
MACS Offline
#1148 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,798
HockeyDad wrote:
We really like our new EV. It nice to be able to do what we can to help the environment and fight climate change.


I have an EV. It's a Lectric E-bike. Even has the baskets so I can carry stuff. Anxious
Brewha Offline
#1149 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,185
HockeyDad wrote:
We really like our new EV. It nice to be able to do what we can to help the environment and fight climate change.

I find your altruism oddly out of character…..
HockeyDad Offline
#1150 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,138
Brewha wrote:
I find your altruism oddly out of character…..


From an engineering standpoint it just makes perfect sense. Good range, less moving parts, no oil changes, and I can save the planet from the climate emergency.
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