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Sometimes I like to go back and read a thread again and this caught my eye.

Made me think, isn't that just the beginning of the story? It gets deep...

^

Yeah. Hamas is savage no doubt. They would kill me in a heart beat. Imagine if they were a real army and it was a fair fight...

I think of the non-combatants though. People just trying to have a somewhat normal life within the place where they were born. Just the average person over there...

It's sad that life is so cheap. It's that way with all wars though. A few get rich while the majority pay the price. Like Smedley Butler said, "War is a racket."

Are you saying all Gazians are combatants?

I’m sure at a minimum toddlers and such aren’t out there actively carrying out attacks on anyone so that pretty much rules out all being combatants. IIRC Hamas didn’t win the elections by unanimous consent so that rules out even more. That said the populace is certainly overwhelming anti-Israeli.

On the other hand, I can’t believe anyone was foolish enough back in 1948 to believe that by forcing 500,000+ people from there homes any sort of peace would ever be possible. The notion of a 2 state solution is equally foolish. In what world is anyone foolish enough to believe that having being expelled from their homes anyone would sign on to an agreement that basically states they can return home as long as they do a, b, c…..x, y & z.

In reality different groups of people have been fighting over a few hundred square miles of desert for millennia. Jews feel like the land is theirs because their god is believed to have said so. Arabs on the other hand feel like the land is theirs because they were living there until being expelled in 1948.

Going forward wars will still be fought over that stretch of desert and absolutely nothing is going to stop what has been going on since man walked on 2 legs.

^57, your viewpoint is very accurate.

#57

Christians pray to the same God Jews do. They do not have their own God. There is only one God. (“You shall have no other Gods before Me").

21% of Israel's population is Arabs with full citizenship.

That says it all: Acceptance v. intolerance.

On Nov. 29, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for Palestine to be partitioned between Arabs and Jews, allowing for the formation of the Jewish state of Israel. In doing so roughly 225,000 Palestinians where displaced from their homes in the newly created Jewish state. The fact that they were offered Israeli citizenship is akin to Russia taking control of Crimea and offering the indigenous populace citizenship as a consolation prize.

As far as not being forced out, 98.2% of the time in recorded history when a foreign power takes land from the people living there those people flee. So the fact that they left simply reflects them doing what would be considered the natural thing to do.

It can be spun into any story one wants to spin it. But at the end of the day lands were essentially taken from the people living there and given to a different group of people so they could form a nation. There will never be peace, not necessarily because the lands were taken but because the groups of people involved have been locked into a death struggle over a chunk of desert that’s been ongoing for 1000’s of years.

Interestingly enough, from 1920 to 1948 the area was called Palestine.

“The Mandate for Palestine was a League of Nations mandate for British administration of the territories of Palestine and Transjordan, both of which had been conceded by the Ottoman Empire following the end of World War I in 1918. The mandate was assigned to Britain by the San Remo conference in April 1920.”

Let’s not let the fact that the Canaanites were there before the Israelites get in the way or that it hasn’t always been called Judea.

Of course we could go back as far as the cave drawings will take us but none of that matters because chances are the original settlers simply grunted and were so underdeveloped as a group that more likely they focused on surviving from one minute to the next than drawing pictures.

What was the sin of the Canaanites?
Canaanite culture was described as utterly corrupt, especially when it came to violence and abuse of the most vulnerable in their communities. The Old Testament presents the Israelites as an instrument of divine justice. These are not depicted as battles for plunder or power-grabs.

What did God say to do to the Canaanites?
The command to utterly destroy these people seems pretty clear, and Joshua, after taking control of the land, said that he did everything the Lord commanded (Joshua 11:20-23).

If you believe that god gave Jews the Ten Commandments and Torah (Old Testament), then this is the answer. All of this will be sorted out when the Messiah comes...

^ that sounds like a straight man set up for a Don Rickles line…..

If you say so...

Pretty confident the term Judea came from the Romans when they had their expansive empire.

Not impossible. But, Jewish lore was that it was written by Moses.

I am just leading with the the arguments that I believe support my position best to the greatest audience possible.

Abrahm> Issac> Jacob...

Judaism began before the Jews were enslaved by the Egyptians.

Also: "The biblical patriarch Isaac is recognized as a prophet of God by Muslims. As in Judaism and Christianity, Islam maintains that Isaac was the son of the patriarch and prophet Abraham from his wife Sarah."

I don’t disagree with either. On the other hand I do believe to a certain degree that organized religion, regardless of dogma, is for the most part self-servant and has been used as a crutch throughout history to justify atrocities. A few examples that come to mind would be the crusades, the inquisition and the Canaanite genocide.

Here’s a non PC question for those who don’t support Israel’s right to exist or Jews in general. Anybody that looks at them anywhere in the range of Meh to full on anti-semites.

If you want the Jewish state to fail, and get the Jews out of Israel, where exactly do you want them to go?

The ironic redneck answer might be “back where they came from”. But seriously?

It sure who if anyone specifically this is addressed to but IMO Isreal has as much a right to exist as any other nation. No more, no less.

"Old Testament" is a Christian perspective/translation of the "First Five Books" often in English- The Torah is written in complex Hebrew and is interpreted from a Judaic perspective.

exactly.
so the answer to Russ's question is that what others call The Old Testament we call the Torah...both are the Five Books of Moses, or The Hebrew Bible.

I have jokingly called it The Prequel on many occasions here.

Are there separate Shebrew schools for da wimmens..??

Indeed you have. And I think rightly so... as it foreshadows Jesus' coming several times.

Yes. There are many transliterations of the word plus pronunciation differences based on both- Bereshis or B-t -are appropriate based on where one's ancestry, among other things.

This thread has taken a thoughtful, questioning turn. I like that. Are Bereshis and B-T from different historical timeframes, or just regionally different from the same historical timeframe?

Hi Robert, I just wanted to say that I can understand why you or anyone would conclude that genocide is occurring in Palestine. I take you at your word that you’re not a far left progressive ideologue. Personally, I don’t think Israel is pursuing genocide. I believe the reports I’ve read and heard about the painstaking precautions the IDF is taking to avoid civilian casualties. I also believe that the IDF knows civilian casualties will be very high. I further believe that Hamas will do everything to ensure that Palestinian civilian casualties will be high. We know Israel drops the leaflets and sends out warnings on the cell phones. We know that Hamas is under ground, literally not figuratively, when the IDF announces the attacks. We know Hamas uses civilians and schools / hospitals as human shields for Hamas combatants. Still, the IDF is accepting that innocent civilians will be killed in large numbers. That, to my thinking anyway, is ruthless warfare but not genocide. So, I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m saying that I see it differently.
Regarding 1948, Israel has been recognized by the UN as a legitimate nation since then. Any discussion about drawing a map based on legal agreements prior to that date is a non-starter as far as I can tell. By what authority would they do that? The lands that Israel has occupied has been the result of combat in retaliation to attacks from hostile neighbors such as Hamas. Israel thinks it needs to occupy these lands for national sovereignty and defense. Should they simply give the land back as if they were never attacked? Never in a defensive war in these lands? I don’t think that is reasonable or logical. I think this is the result of bad diplomacy and decision making on the part of Hamas and other anti-Israel groups. Harsh as it is, it is a f/%k around find out situation. Again, just my opinion.
As far as your claim that Israel is only interested in land and energy resources, I don’t see any discussion or support for your claim. I believe Israel would be happier to have peace without the resources in question because they have a thriving economy and it would be cheaper to buy the gas than to fight for it and defend it.
This is how I see it. It’s difficult to make a point in such a constrained message. I hope I’ve said enough to express some reasons for my opinions. Thanks for sharing yours.